David Brabham - A supercharged story of racing success

Lee Gray: 0:01

Welcome to Tales from the top. So many striving for success, but how do you define it? What's it really like and what happens when you get them? Join me Lee Gray, co founder of Kyron Audio creators of ultimate home Music Systems, and my co host Jayde Deverson, founder of Deverson Design creators of unique luxury environments. As we celebrate the lives and achievements of those who dared to dream big, and have reached incredible heights. We delve into what drives them now to new challenges that they face and discuss the unexpected Tales from the today's show we're joined by David Brabham, motor racing legend and creator of supercar company revenue automotive. We'll be talking to David about his motor racing career in his current venture building fiery Brabham bt 62. We'll find out just what it takes to wind and heat of endurance racing, and how that has shaped the evolution rather than automotive. Today's episode is sponsored by us Kyron audio and deverson design. A Kyron we enrich people's lives with music systems that create lifelike three dimensional images that evoke real emotional responses and allow our true connection to recorded music. With our strategic partners, we can help you create the ultimate environment to enjoy your Kyron music system. From interior design guidance through to an entire bespoke listening room. We can assist you to bring your dream to life, life is better with music and music is better with Kyron.

Jayde Deverson : 1:17

deverson design creates luxury garage environments for the discerning automotive collector, preserving your collection in surroundings that are more gallery than garage and so enhancing the value of your enjoyment with projects across Australia in Europe deverson design provides design services worldwide, truly bespoke garages start with inspiring designs. Let Deverson design inspire you to get in touch with one of our principles directly visit our websites car on audio.com Today you or Deversondesign.com.au To book a consultation. And now on with the show. David's passion for racing was ignited at the relatively late age of 17 after seeing a go kart during his us factory visit with his IndyCar racing brother Jeff from 1982 David regularly won kart races and a cheap secondhand cart. He later progressed to the new Ford laser series, and from there on to single seaters and eventually winning the 1997 F two gold star. After making a move to Britain he had much success in f3 racing, with the inevitable jump to a short but interesting stint with Formula One. Then finally endurance racing and even more glory is on a roll of racing victories is long and includes spa 24 hour race, Bathurst, 1000 American Milan series 12 Hours of Sebring, and the three times winner of the grueling 24 hours of Milan, just like his world champion father before him, the late Sir Jack Brabham, David now builds his own racing and road going supercars. Hello, David, and thank you for joining us. Yeah. So hi, Lee J. Aiden. Great. So I'm going to jump straight into it. Very interesting reading about your history. So the farm born in the UK, but coming home to Australia in the age of five, and growing up on the farm on the maroon, Big River, then off to a specialist agricultural boarding school at 13. It seems like life was pretty well mapped out for you. But I think something what what went wrong? What happened?

David Brabham: 3:19

Yeah, farming? Well, yeah. Because obviously, you know, my, my family were involved in racing, obviously, since 1948. And my brothers were racing. And I showed no interest as a kid, I was more interested in playing football. That was my passion, soccer. And just riding skateboards, you know, that was just a very simple kind of way of describing that was my world as a kid up until the age of 13, where I went to an agricultural boarding school. And of course, all that was really designed for us because we had a four and a half 1000 acre farm, sort of between Wagga Wagga and Nerandrah, on the Murrumbidgee River. I think the family felt well, you know, one of the one of the boys has got to kind of go through and look after that one day. And because I showed no interest in in motorsport whatsoever, I guess I was the chosen one in that sense to, to learn about agriculture and start working on the farm, which is what I did.

Jayde Deverson : 4:20

So does that mean you're there been your brothers were agriculture. Were racing interested? earlier?

David Brabham: 4:26

Are they? Well, they were there. I'm the youngest. So they will they will racing before I even started thinking about so it wasn't till I as you say, I went over to America to watch my my brother race, which was the first time I really saw racing for the first time. Saw a go now IndyCar Yeah, that was Indy cars in 82. And I went to a workshop which was the first proper racing workshop that I'd ever been in. sort of go kart there. The guy was working I didn't even know people race go karts had not a clue. And that was it. That was the kind of start really? Yeah.

Jayde Deverson : 5:06

Yeah. Well, it's sort of went quite ballistic from that point, didn't it? It sort of jumped to go karts. And I did read that you didn't get any support from from your parents in the racing, they weren't overly keen. So you bought this cheap go kart and then threw at the back of the unit and went racing, without support until was Did I read correctly? Your dad then popped in and said, I better go with you and give you a hand and then you just started winning everything. Pretty much the way it went?

David Brabham: 5:39

Well, yeah, pretty much mean it. You know, when I sat down with dance actually like to go in and go cardi his face went white, you know? Yeah. So it was like, Well, I'm not getting any support there. I actually went to a next door neighbor, who I went to school with in the Agricultural College, down in Walla Walla. And I said, Hey, let's go and have a little bit of go kart meeting because we actually had a go kart we actually drove we actually built a go kart ourselves. Yeah, that was at his place. And we just, I just went over there and we'd have fun, you know. And of course, I love to driving. It wasn't like I didn't like driving. I love driving. That was my big thing. I drove on the farm flat out sideways, super dangerous. Didn't matter whether it was a motorbike or tractor or a ute or whatever. It was flat out in sideways the whole time and I absolutely

Jayde Deverson : 6:32

had to Grey Massy on three wheels on occasion.

David Brabham: 6:35

Well, more than nearly to believe me. So I ended up going to this go kart race, and we just fell in love with it. And we bought we actually bought a secondhand go kart together, we were headed off for our very first go kart test. Dad wasn't at that, you know, he had businesses all over the place. So you know, Sydney and England so he was traveling all the time. He was still very heavily involved in Formula One in the background with Honda and Williams and McLaren and you know, you know, so he was he was busy so he just happened to be there when I was heading off in the ute with the with the go kart in the back and just as I started it, he knocked on the window and he said I better come with you. So he jumped in the ute with us and off we went and you know there was no one there was just us and he put a little piece of plastic that he found on the ground and he'd say right there as you turn in point so he was starting to you know give us a little few tips here and there but yeah, I mean he could see straight away that I could drive and then for him it was all about if you're serious you got to You're serious if you're not you're not you know you're either in or you're out and so I started to do you know racing with my mate we'd both rotate the driving and the mechanic thing he was a better mechanic and I was a better driver so it kind of that's how it kind of that works well yeah so that's how drifted drifted on and dad came to the first race at Griffith I ended up in hospital because I was racing with a pair of jeans and a jumper and nothing else. Yes, I rolled over and my jumper came up and I was just grazing my back and flesh all over the tarmac and ended up in hospital wrapped up in a mummy and I think dad thought great that's it you see he's not going to get back in a go kart, you know?

Jayde Deverson : 8:40

Yes. And I think man probably would have been thinking the same. Oh,

David Brabham: 8:42

my mom hated it. Mom hated mom was a nervous wreck by that time having seen Jack Jack go through, you know, quite serious situations with his with his fellow drivers who passed away on friends and so forth and then obviously seeing her other sons racing and and then I'm starting to race go karts. And she just yeah, she hated it. She hated it. So

Lee Gray: 9:08

It's hard enough for a mother with some kids on the road, let alone on the race track. 24/7 man got a feel for her!

David Brabham: 9:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Jayde Deverson : 9:18

So mentorship I mean, this is this is probably a bit early but mentorship what are you doing with with your skills at the moment beyond the your son, your son's racing now? Do you mentor any other racing groups or any other people what what are you doing at the moment?

David Brabham: 9:39

Yeah, so Ah, god, I gotta say when was this this must have been middle to late 2000s. I high was the sort of sporting director of Team UK. So team UK is a bit like The Governing Body over here at the time was called the MSA the motorsport association is now called motorsport UK. So I ran a young driver development program. I then took over the rally side of it because the rally side started first and then the racing side. And then they brought everything together. And I actually took over the whole of that running of the rally drivers, the race drivers, the navigators, and put programs together, working with partners, who are, you know, component suppliers to to motor sports, such as tires, suspension, you know, shock absorbers, gearboxes, engines, designers, and start to educate them about stuff, they really need to learn to make them a better driver, we would go to the racetrack, we would we would drive with them, educate them, and so forth. So that lasted about six years. And then the MSA sort of took it, took it on themselves, so I kind of helped build it up for them. And and that was it. And of course, obviously, with customers of Brabham BT62s that are racing, I'm also there helping helping them in terms of I'm not not as involved as I was with the young driver development program. But I'm there to help as and when I needed such, you know, means so if there is a racetrack, and I can see something on the data, or I can see something just their heads, not quite in it on the day, which is pretty much the most important thing. And you start working with them to get their focus back to where they need to be and focus in the areas that's actually going to make them improve. Because you can forth, you can fill up someone's mind very quickly with where you got to improve but narrowing it down to what's going to make the biggest step. That's an art. And that takes experience and learning learning the driver that you're working with to get the best out of them.

Jayde Deverson : 12:09

Might go back a bit 1987 the Adelaide Grand Prix? Yeah. You're in the supporting race to the F2 Australian Drivers Championship. Yeah. And because of various mechanical issues. saw you last on the grid? Yeah. Then there was some some interesting byplay between you and my dad and your dad. And then you ended up finishing the race starting last and coming first by almost two seconds. I mean, there's just a incredible feat. What what was happening there? Is that something you? You're happy to talk about?

David Brabham: 12:50

Yeah, sure. I mean, I that year 87 was a busy year for me, I didn't actually compete in any particular championship because I went to America and did former Atlantic did four races over there. I raced in Argentina, and Uruguay in Formula Three. I went to New Zealand to do the Tasman series. So when it came to the Australian Grand Prix support race, normally the Gold Star championship would be a championship, it would be the full season of races. But for whatever reason, I can't remember the formula 2 championship wasn't allocated for the gold star, and they decided that the gold star would be up for grabs for that that race at the Adelaide Grand Prix. Yeah, so it's a great prize to have my dad never won it. So you know, it was it was game on. And the three, three months before I sat down with my dad, my mom and dad and I said, Look, I've got something to tell you. I said, you know, my girlfriend, Fiona's pregnant?

Jayde Deverson : 13:57

How old? How old? Were you then?

David Brabham: 14:02

22

Jayde Deverson : 14:04

Okay, all right. So just painting the picture. So we understand the, the magnitude of what you've unveiled, but 1987

David Brabham: 14:11

Yeah. 1987 I'm on the verge of heading to Europe. And yeah, I had to sit down with my dad in particular and say, you know, my, my girlfriend's pregnant. And that went down like a lead balloon. Yeah, because he was the the opinion. Motor Sports are very selfish environment. If you're not 100% dedicated, you're not going to make it. So how are you going to do this? Being that young and having a baby and having to be that dedicated to it. He couldn't see how that was gonna work and we fell out. So for three months, I never spoke to my dad. Till, till till that Grand Prix weekend and You know, it's uncomfortable, isn't it? You have an argument with your parents like that. It just doesn't, doesn't sit. So obviously, you mentioned qualifying. Yeah, we had some electrical issues, and I never did a lap. So I had to start at the back. And I had this conversation with my mum and dad before the race and he was wearing a Formula One Pass, and I said, Oh, you better give me one of those. When I'm in Formula One. He said, The days of you ever getting to Formula One have finished, like deadpan, dead straight. He had that was it he as far as I was concerned, harsh. I'm done, you know, and the anger and the rage inside me. I told him to F off and off I went. And I had steam coming in my ears. But what it did it my mood changed completely? Okay. Yes. So if you if you were to say, well, how much more determination did you have after that conversation? 1000 times more, you know, what I mean?

Lee Gray: 16:03

lead you down the path of depression or, or forged you absolute forged your idea? Yeah,

David Brabham: 16:08

it could have it could have it could have I could have walked away in tears. You know, I could have walked away and so okay, I tell you what, I'm going to damn well show you! You know what I mean? yes. So I remember getting in that car. And, and I'm sitting on the on the on the grid with everybody on the grid, you know, the teams and the cars and stuff.

Jayde Deverson : 16:30

You're looking at all the losers in front of you. Yeah, yeah,

David Brabham: 16:34

I have. Well, I can only see a few because the head in Adelaide, I was behind you. I was around the other side. Your mates I couldn't even see. Yeah. Yeah. So then all of a sudden.

Lee Gray: 16:46

Your'e looking at the hospital. Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, I'm grabbing my mechanic. And I said, You go down there, and you tell those guys in front of me, they better get out of my way. Because I'm coming through now I would have never done that. But I was in such a mood. Of course, he went down and had a chat to him. He came back and I said what they say? Well, I won't tell you what they said. But you can imagine what they said. And that got me even more angry. And yeah. And there was a balance between driving at a at a different level that that made every decision I made perfect. Or I was just going to crash into somebody because I my emotions took over me, you know?

Jayde Deverson : 17:30

So the red, you avoided the red mist?

David Brabham: 17:32

I had red mist, but I had I had it in a way that served me put it that way. Sure. And I drove I drove like, I'd never never seen myself drive before. You know, it was a completely different level.

Jayde Deverson : 17:46

And how's that affected? Is that the thing that sort of affected you from here from that point on

David Brabham: 17:51

totally,

Jayde Deverson : 17:52

or was that?

David Brabham: 17:53

it taught, me It taught me and dad kept saying to me said David, it's all here. It point to his head. And it's all in your head, you know, mean? And and he would never articulate it. He would just say, David, it's all here. That's the best way he knew how to describe it. And after that, obviously, I just lit I went from last, or 30 what it was at 35th on the grid or whatever it to 17th from that point on. Then I was into 9th. And I was just it didn't get out of my way. I'm coming through. I never touched anyone never caused anyone an accident. But I used to knew where to place the car and how to place it better than I have ever done before. I could the grip, I just push that car to a new level push myself to a new level. And I got to the end. won the race dad was obviously happy. He brought he actually halfway through the race could see the race. I was catching everybody grabbed hold of Ken Tyrol and Jackie Stewart and grabbed him from the pit lane and said come and have a look at this.

Jayde Deverson : 18:59

Yeah, that's my boy.

David Brabham: 19:01

That's my boy. Yeah, I know, all of a sudden, yeah, I mean, boy, again you know what I mean! I one the race. And, you know, and I, I always look back as a gift. Because because it propelled me to a whole different place mentally, that when I went to England, you know, you know, sort of within two years, I'd won the British f3 Championship, and I'd won the World Cup of f3. And a lot of that came from that race, just learning learning how to deal with things so much better. Finding what motivated me, you know, and take my mental place to perform better than I'd ever done before.

Lee Gray: 19:45

Yeah, sorry. How did you do that before without getting riled up? I mean, it was obviously anger. The thing that got you through?

David Brabham: 19:51

Yeah, you know, I had it. I actually worked out I had to find things that actually did make me angry.

Lee Gray: 19:59

Right.

David Brabham: 19:59

So I could carry that through that just gave me that little extra edge.

Lee Gray: 20:04

How did you how did you manage that? Because I would imagine racing as a fine line all the time.

David Brabham: 20:11

Yeah.

Lee Gray: 20:12

But how did you how did you not destroy the car in that rage and look after the tires, and all of all of those things at the same time, all this, this rage is inside of you?

David Brabham: 20:21

Yeah, I mean, there's a rage where you're reckless, and your fuel. You know, what the like, was when I was working with the young drivers, you know, we get, we get so much data from race cars, you know, it's oodles of data, you can see exactly what the drivers do, you can compare driver to driver on the same car, same data, and just look at where they're braking, how they're braking, how they're turning into the corner, how they're getting on the throttle, what speed they're carrying, all that sort of stuff. And you can easily turned to a driver and so right you need to brake 20 meters later. Alright, now that driver may not be able to think that he can do that. Alright, but the cars capable of doing it. But the drivers mindset is such that they just can't see it. Yeah. So what I'd worked out through my career was, I had to make sure that their mood was it was was in a place. So when I say they mood, you know, who do they think they are? Are they confident or they're overconfident? Are they? Do they have a real belief about what they're doing? Or are there some doubt? Is there doubt in the team about the driver? Is there doubt within the driver within the team for the team site? You know, I mean, it's so all these things have influences what's going on at home, you know, is their home problems that they're bringing into the racetrack that's causing, you know what I mean? So, you know, the, because the margins are so fine. And your mood will determine how you interpret your world. How you get the feedback, how you interpret it, how you give that information to the engineers, how you move forward. Depends on your mindset, you know, so it was really important for me to make sure that when I was myself, as a driver that I understood, the best way for me to describe is, you know, if I looked in the mirror, you know, what's my future? Look in the mirror? Because that will tell me, what mood Am I in? That will tell me what's going to happen next, you know, so I found I had to then fine tune that all the time. Because your moods, your emotions, your feelings, everything changes from day to day, doesn't it, you know, from moment to moment, it can change. So to then move into a race meeting, getting rid of all of that stuff in your head, getting that focus and whatever, is super, super important. And that's before you've even jumped in the car,

Lee Gray: 22:57

you try to induce that state of flow isn't you try to slowly induce that state of flow in chaos. And yeah,

David Brabham: 23:04

basically, yeah. And that chaos can be before you even get to a racetrack, you know, I mean, so yes, that can be an internal chaos or the chaos in your family environment or your you know, your outside the racing world. You get into your racing world, if you don't switch that off. And all your senses are heightened. And your your focus is heightened your you know, how much do you want it as the guy next to you want it more than you? Yeah, it's it's as simple as that. You know,

Jayde Deverson : 23:34

I can see the parallels between that in business as well, I believe what you're saying now, if we, if we put this conversation, everything you've just said in the context of a business presentation meeting for small business owners, and you, you probably wouldn't change anything, you just said you just changed the context. How's how has that affected and given you? The the ability to progress with Brabham Automotive now is that I presume it's had an effect. All of that has come to come to the fore there.

David Brabham: 24:09

Yeah, I think, you know, I ended up let's let's backtrack a bit, because, you know, Brabham automotive exists for a number of reasons. It's not just because David Brabham, there's other people that play. But if I go back to when I was 40, I was looking for when I was 50. To go, right, what am I going to do when when I get to 50? Because I'll be too old, too slow. No one's going to want to pay me I probably won't want to do it again. So what's the next chapter? And then looked at? Okay, we got this iconic name Brabham. I thought we did and thought right, let's do something with it, then discovered somebody owned it. Then I had to go to court and that took seven years to get get the name back in Germany. And then I had to start all over again, in the sense that okay, now I've got this name, what do I do with it? And starting anything up, like an automotive company requires a lot of grit and determination as challenges are coming your way all the time, you know,

Jayde Deverson : 25:24

to do so in Australia, is that there have been lots of small manufacturers in Australia who have started failed. There's the canon, there's all sorts of things. Ball will, of course, is one that probably did better than most. But they were in a mid market. You've not only chosen to start an incredible supercar business, but you're doing so in Australia, in competition, and you're competing against McLaren, Pagani. Koenigsegg, Ferrari and the rest. So that takes some pretty powerful guts to do that.

David Brabham: 26:06

It's, it's ambitious, there's no doubt about it, you got you got to have the right partners. So we, you know, solve the problem is a brand and we look for projects to use the brand as an accelerator to market. So we we did a deal with Fusion capital out of Adelaide, where we create a problem automotive, the BT 62 went to market, the BT 62 went out to market as a sort of track car only, that's evolved to a racing version and a road version of the BT 62 We last end of last year, we launched bt 63, which is a GT two race car. So, you know, as a business, with, you know, certainly with with our with the partners, I brought down in Adelaide, you know, we've taken on a massive challenge, but we are we are reaching targets that we set ourselves. Yes, it's taken longer than we thought, but hey, you know, who doesn't? It's been, it's probably been more challenging than we thought. Obviously, COVID is played havoc on a lot of people, particularly supply chains and things like that, but we've managed to sort of weather the storm, which, which is great. And, you know, we're building we're slowly building the business now. All of us have that same mentality of we're going to give this a go, yes, there's going to be challenges we're gonna have to be, you know, and things don't go smoothly, internally and externally, you know, I mean, it just, that's the dynamics of what you're trying to achieve stresses whatever. But, you know, at the end of the day, we are making the progress that that we, you know, we're, we're comfortable with, you know, it's it's with where we are, and it's, you know, with the GT two program, we feel that's got a lot of potential as well, because GT two, let's say is a fairly new championship, although the named GT twos be around a long time. It's a new kind of pro and you know, very much amateur based kind of championship

Jayde Deverson : 28:19

it. I was just gonna say it's a great series. I know I have made to race GT turn that they're racing, Porsche, particularly, and enjoying it. You will see them at the bend Tailem Bend quite often. There's great series out there. Sam Shahhin is doing very well in that series. And that now I see that Bentley with the GT continental coupe. They're doing the GT two cars as well. So how are you sitting in that marketplace at the moment? Where is what sort of successes have you had with the car that in in the BT 63 and the GT two class?

David Brabham: 29:00

Yeah, so we, we looked at the GT two program and thought how do we get this up up and running? Stephen retail organization, SRO pretty much run all of GT racing globally. So they were they were the ones behind getting this new GT two championship up and running. And they obviously were racing in Europe. It took a couple of years because of COVID. And everything got delayed, which was I think, was probably good timing for us, as well, for when we when we jumped in. So for us to compete, obviously, the car has to go through a homologation process. But we had to get a car to the racetrack to race at the last round at Paul Ricard, which I drove with an amateur. Dennis Anderson. So high class racing actually bought that vehicle that we put together, and they ran the car and we You know, it was shake the car down before it went over to Europe and straight into the race meeting so we were not as prepared as we would have liked to be. So we were still shaking the car down down for the weekend to be fair, but you know, I managed to qualify third which was a massive, like, wow, okay. Yeah, because I felt rusty as hell believe me. It was two years since competition, right. Yeah.

Jayde Deverson : 30:32

It's old driver and a new car as opposed to the classic series of new car new driver in an old car. Yeah.

David Brabham: 30:40

Definitely a retired and slow brain to begin with jumping in the car. Yeah, so but you know it all yeah, don't came together in the end. And we I fit qualified third for my race. And Dennis qualified for so we showed the performance of the vehicle straightaway. And then that in itself has created more interest in in what we're doing with the GT two program. There's some excitement

Jayde Deverson : 31:14

Win on Sunday sell on Monday!

David Brabham: 31:16

Well, exactly. You know, go out there and your show and demonstrate what you can what you're capable of. I mean, last weekend, we had our first New Zealand customer, the BT 62 Competition Spec race. So they were in a similar boat. We didn't test the car before COVID They went out there. There was a few little technical issues but each race that he did, he got fastest race lap qualified third for race one. And most definitely could have could have won the last race but he had a stone through the radiator. And that was it. So you know, with with, you know, we're going to be racing in Europe. We got it. We got one racing here in the UK and GT Cup. We got one now racing in New Zealand. So you can see it's all starting to spread

Jayde Deverson : 32:04

going in the right direction. Yeah, that's, that's great. I'm excited about the fact that it's going to be the GT the BT 62 arm? Yeah. How is the car different? How's the car different from other than the fact that you the the obvious technical issues too, for Australia, of course, to meet the Australian design rules? And the equivalents around the world? What are you doing there?

David Brabham: 32:31

Yeah, I mean, it really depends on country to country, I territory to territory in terms of the regulations, some are more challenging than others. For sure. And, you know, the BT 62 R, which is obviously the road compliant conversion of a BT 62 track car is, you know, there's technical changes that we need to make to the vehicle to be able to go through the required registration process for that, for that country. And like I said, each country is a little bit different. But you know, the GT, the GT three, sorry, the the BT 63 GT two car is much more in line, let's say with BT 62 R in terms of its aerodynamic and again, performance as such, so although the engine that the BT 62 R is still pretty potent, at 700, the gear ratios are different. The rear splitter, the rear diffuser, the front splitter, rear wing, a much smaller and higher, you know, you know, the shock absorbers adjust. So they can go up and down and give you more ride height to go over bumps and go up driveways and things like that. So there are some subtle changes that you have to make.

Jayde Deverson : 33:59

And what about the aesthetics? How are you making it more comfortable for the bank manager? Or the retired politician who wants to buy a car and drive around?

David Brabham: 34:10

Yeah, I mean, if Yeah, I mean, if you you know, that the seats, the interior, the sound, the noise, you know, there's bit of noise cancellation going on in there as well. I mean, it's still a pretty raw car for the road, you're never going to make it like a luxury road car. That's not what it is, you know, if you want something different.

Lee Gray: 34:32

Is there plans for that though, David?

David Brabham: 34:34

Yeah, all of what we're doing at the moment is building up to you know, produce Road, proper supercars for the road. Because that that's very different from what we've got today. In terms of the BT 62 The BT 62 hour and the BT 63. Yeah, so in the background, we've been working on a new supercar for the road. As as we building up the business, we're building up that project in parallel.

Jayde Deverson : 35:06

Interesting. Is that going to be different architecture as well? is are we going to see two distinct stylings? One, the BT 6263. Family and then the Brabham Road specific car? Well, I can see this on radio.

David Brabham: 35:25

Yeah, right. Yeah, I can see your hands moving around.

Jayde Deverson : 35:28

Yeah, no, no. Yeah, no, one else will!

David Brabham: 35:30

they the design cues will carry on, obviously, as a as a as a Brabham on the road. So that that family DNA will sort of carry through. But in terms of other other things, I can't really talk about those at the moment. But, you know, it's much more designed for the road than it is for the racetrack.

Lee Gray: 35:51

It's beautiful. I mean, I've been fortunate enough to go down and see the see the factory, which is, which is quite incredible. And from a layman, I think thing that really shocked me was there was still remnants of your development of the of the wheels to cope with the BT 62. And there was, you know, the wheels are snapped at the hub. And I was like, dear, God couldn't believe that it was an engine that they had that much talk that much grip that it was, you know, snapping stuffing the wheel at that point? It was just,

David Brabham: 36:23

yeah, yeah. I mean,

Lee Gray: 36:24

that's just jaw dropping.

David Brabham: 36:25

Yeah, that's part of that sort of learning process of, you know, the loads going through the vehicle, the manner of the suppliers that we use, making sure that they're, they're in line with what forces need and where we've been on a, I guess, a learning curve with all of that. But all that's been sort of sorted now. So, you know, that's just been part of the development cycle. Trying new things.

Lee Gray: 36:53

Truly,truly beautiful looking piece of kit. very formidable on the road, that's for sure.

David Brabham: 36:57

Yes,

Jayde Deverson : 36:58

with a whole lot. And what's next thing is, you know, from two designers, the point of with Lee and I are both designers in in various things that we do we have a lot of work, we have a lot of diversity. So we're very keen to I think we'd both be very keen to talk to you again, when possibly about the BT 63 and the road going version, when you've got an opportunity to discuss release details about the the evolution of the company about design. I think we'd love to talk to you about that. But so the future the cars evolving Brabram Automotive is evolving. How is David Brabham? Now evolving? Is it quiet fishing weekends, or is it racing? Are you going to go and go and polish your golf club? So what what's happening for David?

David Brabham: 37:55

Yeah, right wish. Yeah, I don't have time for, unfortunately, a lot of those kinds of activities. I do Goodwood when I can, and I've had a good run at Goodwood for the members meeting and the festival speed and the revivals. So I get to put the race on helmet again, and think about being a driver in those situations. Obviously, I've been involved in the test and development of the BT 62 and the 63. Race, the 63 race, the 62 as well, you know, so we know we want on our debut with a 62 at Brands Hatch. That was a fantastic moment in Brabham history, because, you know, my dad won the British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch going across brabbins Straight winning the British Grand Prix in a Brabham BT 19. And I did the same in a brother bt 62 on rather than straight turn the britcar into the night race, you know, that was that was a really cool moment. So yeah, my involvement with the helmet, I guess, will continue. I'm just not a full time racing driver, you know, remain. So. My, my, my role is to help, you know, grow the business within Brabham automotive, but also the Brabham brand, because I went to I'm brand owner. You know, we're looking at other projects where we can use the brand. I've got a son in Australia, who wants to go racing next year. So I put that on, and I put the Brabham automotive hat on as well, you know, so I wear a lot of hats where I just don't have time just go and play game of golf, which I which I would love to do.

Jayde Deverson : 39:41

Fair enough. I think there's going to be a huge challenging, huge challenge in keeping the next generation interested in motorsport from a spectator point of view because so many young people are either not getting licenses or they're quite folk quite emotional about how the planets being used. So how do you see that? How are you going to maintain that spectator excitement, it really just bolster that spectator excitement in a race series that is going to have to attract re attract that younger generation into electric?

David Brabham: 40:26

Well, I think that's a topic and it has been a topic for some time. For every race series, every television network, every social media platform, every manufacturer in racing, you know that that is a, that's a big topic, you know. And there there is there is a sea of change, which I see as a positive. We may not all that out, the traditionalists within us may not like it, because we like what we had in the past. And then it excites us. And we remember those times these things here, homes, you know, these things have changed. Yes, changed everybody's way of absorbing information, what excites them and things like that. So that, that that's been a real challenge, I think, not just for motor sport, I think for any, any, any sporting activity that wants to engage an audience, you know, it's very different to what it was 1520 years ago, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, you've got to work so much harder to engage that audience. And, of course, as the environmental play, becomes bigger and bigger and bigger, everything, everything will be affected by that. Everything, you know, I mean, so it's a big challenge. It is it's a it's a, there's a quantum shift going on on the planet, which, you know, if you listen to the scientists, it's much needed, and hopefully not too late. But you know, the speed in which things are happening in terms of that we let's put the planet first, let's put humanity first. We're not there yet, for sure. But, you know, if you look at the generations that are coming through the younger generation, I've never seen it in my lifetime, where the young have got such a voice. No, normally

Jayde Deverson : 42:30

very powerful, very powerful event.

David Brabham: 42:32

Absolutely. And some that may be misguided or whatever. But some of it's not either, you know, I mean, because it's pushing

Lee Gray: 42:42

so well educated now.

David Brabham: 42:43

Yeah, it's pushing the agenda. It's changing the agendas of governments, businesses, whatever, to think very differently about how businesses done and how what impact that that has, you know, so, you know, if you're not ahead of that game, now, you're going to get you're going to get left behind

Jayde Deverson : 43:08

the list of Australian Le Mans races is very short. In fact, I think Le Mans champions Brabham's Make up 50% of that list of winners. You. So one of you has to be president one, the chairman. Of course. So, Bentley, vintage Bentley's are one of my very passionate about those. So, Bernard Reuben in 2008, the Australian he won, driving with Wolf binotto Vern Schuppan who lives here as well, he's he won an 83 in his 956 Porsche. Yeah. Your brother Jeff in the 905 Perguot Oh, nine three and then then we come along to your winning war second class in 2003. In the Bentley exp speed eight that that just makes my my heart shiver. Then in 2007, first in class for the DVR nine for St. Maarten and then your outright placing in 2009. With the 908 Pergout. Indurance racing, what a slog 24 hours of it. Is it fair to say that you're relying more on self discipline and strategy then the outright guts and determination of 13 laps at the 87 Deadly Grand Prix? Yeah,

David Brabham: 44:39

very different mindset to for sure, because you only had like 50 laps. So I logged indurance racing. As soon as I got into it, I said, Yeah, this is me. You know,I love the fact that

Jayde Deverson : 44:54

that sort of comes through.

David Brabham: 44:55

Yeah.I love I love the fact that it seemed to be more of a team environment. Yes, you had you had teammates you had to work with. Every driver has a different driving style and require something a little bit different. So you've got to kind of work that out. Now when I first went into sports car racing, was 1991, which was the year I did f1 For Brabham, and I went into that team, and it was a very professional team was Jaguar. Tom Openshaw racing. Yes, Ross, Braun was the designer of the car. The car was phenomenally fast. And I drove, I've actually drove both cars. So I started in one and finished the other. So it was only three of us drivers driving, driving two cars. So it was a three hour race. And I started in one and I'd come out and I'd do the last hour and the other car. And in my first time at the Nurburgring, I finished first and second, which was kind of novel. So that was a good start to my sports car career. And, of course, my very first mom was 92. And that scared the hell out of me because by time we had an accident on the start. I didn't do many laps prior to the race. So I didn't really know the trends well as I would have liked.

Jayde Deverson : 46:25

It was first time at the SAF was Yeah. On that race. Gee,

David Brabham: 46:29

yeah, so it was absolutely bucketing down with rain at the start. And Jeff Lee's my teammate got hit from behind by Yannick Dell mess and in Peugeot, rounding when he limps back to the pits, and we're done, you know, we're 40 Odd laps behind trying to fix the damn thing. So the first time I get in the car was at night. It was pitch black, obviously, it was thick fog. Alright, we were still racing under green, and it was raining, it was still raining very heavily.

Lee Gray: 47:00

So what kind of when you say thick fog? What kind of visibility Do you have not however heavy

David Brabham: 47:05

I like it was to two or three of the white lines on the Mulsanne straight. And that was it. When I went out, I never got our third gear and my first

Jayde Deverson : 47:16

lap. So what speed we're doing on the what speed we're doing on the most and straight in third gear, clear weather and in and in the fog.

David Brabham: 47:26

Well put it this way the neck that I did third gear, going around the racetrack and a couple of times I just like when you go out of Molson corner to Indianapolis out the back, there's two kinks. I missed the first kick, I was on the grass and then I was back on again. And then the next lap, I thought, come on you What the hell are you doing? Get? Just get going. We're just put. So I'm flat. 180

Jayde Deverson : 47:54

miles an hour?

David Brabham: 47:56

Yeah, well, yeah. 180 190 mile an hour. Down down the mall sign just sitting in the middle praying, no one's in front of me. Flat chat waiting to try and see where the brake markers were, you know, kind of where you're at. And yeah, I was not comfortable. I was not comfortable. You know. So that was my first Le Mans. And luckily, luckily, it got better after that. Luckily, it got better after that. So I did at I did 18 Le Mans and you know, I finished third, a second with Bentley in 2003. Which was was pretty special. Actually, when my brother won, we won that GT class in the Jaguar 220 Although we got disqualified later, but on the on the day, yes, yes, really haven't won overall. And so both on the podium, my dad was there and it was a really special moment. And

Jayde Deverson : 48:56

that was the 220. Yeah. What was it like to drive a 220 which is which is a magnificent motorcar with that V six, which I think astounded a lot of people when it was released. When everyone thought the presume that it would be the V 12 desirably. But incredibly fast car what's what was it like to drive in a race?

David Brabham: 49:19

Well, at first it was bit of a handful, because it didn't have enough rear downforce. And then when we got to the race, they put a big rear wing on it settle that down quite a lot. And, you know, ended up being quite successful event for us in the end because we we were declared the winners at the Subala trophy at home. But then we got disqualified.

Jayde Deverson : 49:42

So because of catalytic converter, I think Catalytic converters Yeah, there was there was there was a lot of politics back then between the ACO and the say Tom Walkinshaw. There was a bit of a bit of bad blood there. So anyway, Obviously, for me, Le Mans was was always very special. And you know, the runner in 2007 and eight with Aston Martin, where we finished first and then overall. And when I finished overall, it's interesting because in oh seven and eight, I watched the winners overall go up on the podium and and it was such an amazing feeling anyway winning your class. And I thought, wow, what's it like up there? You know, it must be even more incredible. And of course, in 2009, I was able to do that. And it was exactly the same, the feeling was exactly the same. That and the only thing you that struck me was this ain't about the trophy. This is about the journey. Yes, yeah. That's what it was. Yeah, all of a sudden, it was a light bulb moment. I just thought were all your your family, your friends, that the teammates that you've driven, the amount of times the amount of times you've gone there, and you've had no chance of winning? You think you've got you're never going to get the opportunity again. And there I am standing on the podium, you know, I mean, and I look back now, actually, yeah, it's about the journey. Yeah, that's brilliant. And are we going to see another next generation of Brabham? Either the son or the nephew on that podium as well. Do you think well,

David Brabham: 51:13

yeah, I mean, obviously, hope so. Yeah. I mean, obviously, the ideal scenario would be, you know, this is my ideal scenario. We have, you know, Brabham cars racing at Le Mans and we've got Brabhams and we've got Kyron speakers bashing out the tunes in the pit lane.

Jayde Deverson : 51:31

I don't forget deverson design making your nice garage

David Brabham: 51:35

design out, pulled out of the garage and my future Brabham car and I'm listening to the tunes in the car, and I'm driving, driving to Le Mans. That's That's heaven.

Jayde Deverson : 51:45

Okay, we are going to be there with you. Hopefully, Lee will be there to will be a support crew, your emotional, pitcrew.

Lee Gray: 51:52

Yeah. Thank you. David, thank you so much for your time.

David Brabham: 51:57

You're welcome.

Lee Gray: 51:58

Absolutely wonderful, like, like, Jayde was saying before, we'd love to have you back. You know, maybe perhaps in a year's time, we'll move around. Got some progress on road cars and and Brabham, in general. Yeah, we'd love to to circle back around and say G'day.

David Brabham: 52:14

So yeah. Thanks for your involvement with everything. And yeah, good to catch up and have a great Christmas.

Jayde Deverson : 52:20

Great to tell you. Thanks. And good yet soon to you.

David Brabham: 52:23

I say like,

Lee Gray: 52:25

so what did you take away from that job?

Jayde Deverson : 52:28

Well, it's, it's wonderful to talk to a champion driver like that. It always is, especially in a race series, that I'm so fond of the Le Mans and so it was wonderful. I met Sir Jack, Brabham many years ago, working in the industry. Now I've met David. And it was just such a pleasure, his his down to earth, straightforward, honest approach to talking to us and I, for me, the big thing was learning and understanding his calm in racing, and applying that to business, a particular couple of races where he anticipated what was going to happen, and he backed out, especially in the Macau Grand Prix. Back in the 90s. So for me, it was the single minded determination, the focus, and the powerful calm. So I'm just I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed with the Brabham Automotive car. And I'm really looking forward to supporting the brand. David and the BT. 62. What about you, Lee?

Lee Gray: 53:57

Yeah, I think it was the lessons that we learned that can be applied to all of our lives, like you mentioned before, into business, that that approach that he had to racing and saying that it was so much it was just in the mind and getting that that mindset and maintaining that flow. And I know that I have that with my work in some days, it's easy to design other days it can be a slog, and and it all just comes down to that that mindset. But as I thought it was also great that we can share David's story a bit more to then then just as his father's which is obviously takes the limelight all the time that his his achievements are immense.

Jayde Deverson : 54:42

He's independently powerful. And the fact that he didn't have that support as many children of celebrities do. He is it's all on it's all him. I think we've just, I think we've just had a masterclass Lee

Lee Gray: 55:01

Yeah, no, it was it was very, very impressive and it was wonderful the chatting. It's great. Anyway, so to the listeners, we hope that you enjoyed David's story as much as we did. Thanks for listening to the show. And if you'd like to find out more about Kyron audio or Deverson design and how we can create bespoke luxury environments and experiences in your life, you're more than welcome to book a call with one of our principals through our websites kyronaudio.com.au or deversondesign.com.au or follow us on our socials. Links are in the description. And we will be back next week with another episode to discover more Tales from the top